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What is the
creation of the Et'Ada and how is Lorkhan wondering it if he is no
longer a god?
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The creation
of the Et'ada(in this case referring to the Aedra) is Mundus.
Lorkhan did not fully die, most likely. His heart still
beats, so there is some life left. When his Heart was cast down upon
Mundus, Lorkhan bound himself more deeply to the Mortal Plane than
any of the Aedra, for he is part of all living things. As such, he
can manifest himself by bonding with a mortal and thus become truly
livng for a short time. In truth, I believe this may be the way with
all of the Et'ada who died during the creation of Mundus. Their
souls are bound to the Heart, and travel from body to body. In each
body they grow and change, becoming more than they were. That is the
way Lorkhan sought to fulfill the Psijic Endeavor. Because it is his
Heart, his manifestations are the strongest, and change the
timeline. It is believed that he may have been the greatest heroes
of mankind, and speculation has arisen that he was in fact both
Zurin Arctus and Tiber Septim.
NOTE: The second paragraph is
theories.
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Very
interesting theory, Basilisk...I never even considered that! I guess
I always thought of the "wandering" as more a metaphore than a
reality. It bears consideration.
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Quote:
The second paragraph is theories.
And very astute theories too. 
There is another part of Lorkhan that wanders. According to
the Yokudan (Redguard) creation myth, Lorkhan is Sep, the Second
Serpent, who wanders the heavens as a hungry void that tries to
devour the stars.
This void is acknowledged throughout
Tamriel as the Serpent constellation.
But the wandering part
of Lorkhan directly referred to in VOF is almost certainly similar
to the way TS has described it.
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Magnus was
involved in the creation of Mundus yes? If so what happened to him?
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Magnus was the
architect of Mundus, he was the one who "made" the Mundus, before
the other gods created it. Some people say that Magnus retreated
from creation at the very last moment, but that he paid dearly for
it. They say that the magic left in the Mundus is the remains of
Magnus, IIRC.
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So, did he
steal Talo's body and chang it into Tiber Septim, or was Tiber
Septim always a mortal with Lorkhan's soul? If he stole his body,
then he is probably not so good so unless you tell me otherwise i
will believe he didn't steal it.
Also, if Tiber Septim was
Lorkhan and Tiber Septim became as powerful as a god after death,
than wouldn't that mean that lorkhan has become a god again and is
worshipped in the form of Tiber Septim?
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Magnus didn't
create Mundus before the Aedra; he formed the plans and helped in
the initial construction. The magicka he left is unlimited because
when he escaped he fled to Aurbis. The paths he left, the lines of
magick, are linked from Mundus to Aurbis, and carry its energy to
Mundus.
Lorkhan was a part of Talos, Zurin Arctus, or
possibly both. He did not control them.
That is what Lorkhan
intended. Through the constant cycle of death and rebirth he was
changed and transcended Change and Stasis, becoming a spirit once
again.
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Lorkhan was
a part of Talos, Zurin Arctus, or possibly both.
If he
was one of them, then he was both of them: The
second to see the Brass God was the Enantiomorph. You may know them
individually as Zurin Arctus and Talos. - TiL, Skeleton Man's Interview
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I believe that
the Serpent is not actually Lorkhan, but is instead what assumed his
place. It is said that when Lorkhan's Heart was sundered from him,
his absence in the immortal plane left a void, from which sprang
Sheogorath. Sheogorath is the opposite of Lorkhan, and yet a part of
him. Sheogorath may be the true enemy of the world, because if
Lorkhan is the source of all life, then Sheogorath, his counterpart,
may be the source of all unlife. Lorkhan's Heart continues to keep
the world in balance, but Sheogorath's insanity may threaten to
destroy it all.
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Quote:
I believe that the Serpent is not actually Lorkhan
But Lorkhan has another side
to him other than his Heart. An opposite side. That is the hunger of
the Yokudan mythology that wanders the stars.
--------------------
Fellow of The Theoretical Whirling School Of Vivec
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paying attention. - Tom Peters
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I think we're
both saying the same thing, it's just we go two ways to the same
point. The Serpent is Sheogorath, the opposite of Lorkhan.
Sheogorath is all the evil within Lorkhan which could not be a part
of Mundus. He shed it off, and took only that which could be
salvaged with his Heart. The skin he left behind, the refuse of evil
and hatred, congealed into Sheogorath. They are opposite sides of
the same coin, one white and one black. The Serpent is Lorkhan in
that Lorkhan was once shared his existence with it. The Serpent,
however, is now separate from the Heart, and the two beings follow
their own paths.
This helps to settle the last of my doubts
concerning Lorkhan's objectives. He probably did trick the Aedra,
and as punishment his Heart was taken from him. But the moment of
sundering created the two beings we know, and Lorkhan was made
better for it. That is his attempt at the Psijic Endeavor; by
leaving behind Sheogorath and purifying himself in Mundus he
elevates himself above the petty spirit he was, who used the Aedra
for his own ends.
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Edited by
TSBasilisk (05/19/04 08:53 AM)
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Hmmm...
Interesting. I guess considering that the 'Void' of Lorkhan is
supposed to be his protean pole, then it's not impossible that it
could become what we see as a Daedra.
Quote:
One crucial myth calls him [Sheogorath] the 'Sithis-shaped
hole' of the world.
Is this a fair description of
the unstars or void of Lorkhan?
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The spirit
left behind was half of the original Lorkhan, greater in power but
lesser in essence. Lorkhan's power is too tied to Mundus for him to
use, but Sheogorath still has his full powers and could be
considered a Daedra. In fact, he may even have split himself from
Lorkhan, not desiring to participate in the creation of
Mundus.
And a "Sithis-shaped hole" is smack on for both
Sheogorath and the Serpent constellation. Sithis is the Altmer
concept of Padomay, a corrupting force of chaos. Something
resembling Sithis would corrupt and try to destroy order, as the
Snake does in the constellations and Sheogorath does on Mundus.
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To weigh the
possibility that the Serpent is both a portion of Lorkhan's sundered
divinity and Sheogorath, it is important to understand the true
significance of the Serpent and it's origins, I believe. The full
quote from VOF is, of course:-
"Contemporary sources indicate that his roots are in
Aldmeri creation stories; therein, he is 'born' when Lorkhan's
divine spark is removed. One crucial myth calls him the
'Sithis-shaped hole' of the world."
According to Yokudan tradition, the Serpent is the
hunger that fell from the mouth of Sep when Tall Papa struck him in
judgement for deceiving the gods and creating the Mundus.
Clearly this is a parallel reference to the judgement of
Lorkhan, depicted in the Altmeri "Heart of the World", where his
Heart (divine spark) was also removed.
Yokudan tradition
holds that the Hunger was so prevalent in Sep since he was created
from the waste skins of Satakal (Satak-Akel), the First Serpent, so
he directly inherited the properties of Akel, the Hungry Stomach.
Satak-Akel is another representation of Anu-Padomay, so the
hunger within Sep represents the portion of his being that is wholly
Padomay, that is Change.
We understand from Vehk that all
the et'Ada share elements of both Anu and Padomay. It is Anu that
gifts each immortal with their divine spark; their own little piece
of Stasis or solidified magic. It is the Padomaic portion of their
natures that shapes and defines these sparks, giving them individual
form and character.
The Yokudan creation myth helps us to
understand just how dominant and powerful the urges of his Padomaic
nature were within Lorkhan, as Vehk said, "...he yearned for the
return to flux but at the same time he could not bear to lose his
identity." The flux mentioned here is the cycle of creation and
destruction depicted in Satakal, the state of constant Change that
Padomay is most content with.
So what further
connections are there to Sheogorath, the "Sithis-shaped hole"?
Sithis is, of course, Padomay, a corruption from PSJJJJ, and
the void left in the stars when Lorkhan was 'unmade' is certainly
the isolated portion of his nature derived from Sithis.
The
Yokudan myth says this:
"Sep had much of
the Hungry Stomach still left in him, multiple hungers from multiple
skins. He was so hungry he could not think straight."
and VOF supports this
with, "Sep, though, is driven crazy by the hunger of Satakal...".
So, yes, I would agree that there is a clear connection
between the nature of the Serpent and the sphere of Sheogorath.
However, when examining the wider significance of the
Serpent, in cosmological terms, I believe it is important to
remember that it is foremost a tangible remnant of Lorkhan's
divinity. The polar opposite force within the Wheel to Lorkhan's
Heart.
From the Firmament;
"Each of
the Guardians protects its three Charges from the thirteenth
constellation, the Serpent.
When the sun rises near one of
the constellations, it is that constellation's season.
Each
constellation has a Season of approximately one month. The Serpent
has no season, for it moves about in the heavens, usually
threatening one of the other constellations."
Where the Heart is a place of pure Stasis within Mundus,
forming the immutable pivot of the Wheel, the Serpent is the
unpredictable force of pure Change that drives the Wheel's constant
motion, as it chases the stars and planets across the heavens.
Edited: So as not to sound quite so pompous.
--------------------
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Edited by Nigedo (05/19/04 11:53 AM)
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As a follow up
note, and just returning to the idea of Lorkhan wandering, the
Yokudan creation myth also adds;
"While the rest of the new
world was allowed to strive back to godhood, Sep could only slink
around in a dead skin, or swim about in the sky, a hungry void that
jealously tried to eat the stars."
In "strive back to
godhood", the Redguard view is closely related to the Altmeri notion
of ascendance, following Auriel's path (to the far shores), rather
than the Psijiic Endeavor.
But interestingly, Lorkhan is
depicted here as taking an alternative route and wandering in two
forms; he can either "slink around in a dead skin" or "swim about in
the sky".
I would only add that the idea of Lorkhan slinking
around in "a dead skin", albeit coloured by the Redguards' hatred of
Sep, aptly describes the process of Lorkhan remanifesting in 'dead'
mortal forms as TS mentioned.
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